112dB Forum
Big Blue Series => Big Blue Compressor => Topic started by: niles on September 11, 2012, 12:32:21 PM
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Currently I'm demoing 112db's (http://www.112db.com) Big Blue Compressor and Big Blue Limiter and I ran in to some trouble when using the 64 bit versions in 64 bit Cubase (same goes for the 64bit version Redline Reverb).
The problem:
When opening the editor (GUI) of Big Blue Compressor, Big Blue Limiter and Redline Reverb in a project with a big memory footprint (>2.5GB) the plugins will cause Cubase to make an error and eventually crashes the DAW.
I've contacted with 112db and received some great support. Unfortunately they can't seem to reproduce the crash I experience. So we decided to open a thread to see if any other Cubase users are affected or if this problem is system specific.
So please, if someone uses these VST's, would you be so kind to do the following test.
Thanks in advance!
Reproducible steps (important to exactly follow these steps):
- Open a project with a high memory footprint (e.g. >2.5 GB, be sure not to stress your system and keep some headroom in your memory usage to avoid crashes caused by heavy system load).
- Be sure the Big Blue Limiter or Compressor isn't or was already present in the project.
- Load the Big Blue Limiter or Compressor in an empty non-used insert.
- Enter the editor (GUI) of the plugin.
Result on my system is a repeating crash (see the videos below).
If it doesn't crash on your system with the test above it would be very much appreciated if you could drop a line + your systems specs and OS.
The interesting thing is, when I open the Big Blue Limiter or Compressor in an already used slot (by another plugin), it won't crash the daw.
Another interesting fact is: When I use the 32 bit version (jBridged) the behaviour is normal, so without crashes. When I use the 32 bit version with Cubase's bit bridge the DAW doesn't crash either, but the GUI is blank (behaviour we know from Cubase's 64 to 32 bit bridge).
So it seems it has something to do with Big Blue Compressor, Limiter and Redline Reverb's 64 bit instance in combination with (high) memory usage in Cubase.
I've shot some videos of the behaviour.
112db Big Blue Compressor in Cubase - Crash in unused insert (http://youtu.be/hJIkwHkTA2k?hd=1) (the video shows Cubase 6.5.2 version, but currently the behaviour on 6.5.3 is the same)
112db Big Blue Compressor in Cubase - Normal behaviour in used insert + crash when used in empty insert. (http://youtu.be/vTxuhIlIEsQ?hd=1)
112db Big Blue Compressor in Cubase - Normal behaviour when All VST are unloaded (Low memory usage) (http://youtu.be/rLOtWuymclg?hd=1)
Additional info:
When I use the Big Blue Compressor or Limiter in another 64 bit host (Machine) with a high memory footprint, it wont crash the host.
When I use the 64 bit version in a Cubase project with a lower footprint (<1.9 GB) the VST doesn't cause the DAW to crash when opening the GUI (3rd video).
Using other plugins never lead to crashes in Cubase projects on my system.
I also opened a thread @ Steinberg's forum (http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26463)
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Thanks for this very detailed post! Don't think I have to mention it, but any information that can help us to reproduce this here is highly appreciated.
--nousch
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Hi Niles.
Just ordered a new DAW, which will be fully 64-bit capable andwill have both Cubase 6 & 6.5 as well as Nuendo 5 & 5.5 installed.
Can I please ask you what your current OS is, and how much system RAM you have installed??
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Hello Neil,
Sorry, I haven't included my system specs.
Here they are:
Hardware: ASUS P9X79, i7-3930K, 16GB, HD6450, 3x HD103SJ, RME AIO, RME Multiface
OS: W7 Pro 64 Bit (SP1).
Host Software: Cubase 6.5.4
Controllers: AKAI MPK49, Frontier design Alphatrack, NI Maschine Mikro.
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Just ordered a new DAW, which will be fully 64-bit capable andwill have both Cubase 6 & 6.5 as well as Nuendo 5 & 5.5 installed.
Can I please ask you what your current OS is, and how much system RAM you have installed??
Hello Neil, I was just wondering if you had the chance to check out the 64bit versions with your new rig?
Does it all work as expected?
Cheers!
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OK Niles, I've now mailed 112dB Support regarding the same issue in Cubase 64Bit with Redline Reverb.
Nouch them knows about it.
Two things that I may add is that:
1. If I insert Redline Rev into an insert slot (previously occupied by another plug-in), mine however does give a cascading error as well.
2. Although the the Redline Rev does not crash Cubase if I do not open the GUI (as yours), it intermittently mutes that track. (If I loop a small audio event, 7 out of 10 times it will mute a small part of the event. it is as if the sound disappears briefly and then comes back).
ps: I wonder if it's got something to do with a previously installed demo version... I say so because of the intermittent muting of the track.
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Hello Neil, I was just wondering if you had the chance to check out the 64bit versions with your new rig?
Does it all work as expected?
Cheers!
Will be testing this later today with RedLine PreAmp & EQ (Don't have the Reverb).
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::)Just checking in. I just had a crash again.
I was not thinking, and "accidently" opened the Redline Reverb GUI in my huge project in Cubase 64 - got the usual cascading error and Win 7's "cling-cling-cling" sounds. I'll revert to 32Bit for mixing that specific instrument...
Niles, so?
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I was not thinking, and "accidently" opened the Redline Reverb GUI in my huge project in Cubase 64 - got the usual cascading error and Win 7's "cling-cling-cling" sounds. I'll revert to 32Bit for mixing that specific instrument...
I didn't hear anything yet. But I guess in these times of holiday it will take some time.
If you happen to have jBridge you could also bridge the 32 bit version to use in your 64 bit project in the meantime. Strangely enough that combination is stable for me when testing. AFAIK the 32 bit bridge of Cubase 6.x won't bridge correctly (blank VST GUI).
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Interesting.
I am also having problems with any of the 32-bit versions in both Cubase & Nuendo.
The EQ will load, but that is the end of the project as it will almost certainly show as corrupted at some point. Ditto the PreAmp.
I do not get blank GUI, although they are definitely initialized as grey, but give the GUI a second or so later.
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Niles
Yes, I have jBridge!
Up until now I've been stubborn not to use the 32bit version in my 64bit Cubase with jBridge.
But with the same old thing happening (Redline 64bit crashing large Cubase Project when opening GUI), I will now jBridge the 32-bit for 64-bit use.
But my "work-around" does not resolve the issue with this great product.
So, to confirm (to "all out there"), the status quo remains: Redline Reverb 64-bit crashes large Cubase projects.
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So, to confirm (to "all out there"), the status quo remains: Redline Reverb 64-bit crashes large Cubase projects.
What 64-bit version of Redline Reverb? It does not exist for PC, all you can do is bridge the 32-bit version and bridging is a cobble.......BBC 64-bit works great though.
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Maybe you should download the latest version :)
http://112db.com/redline/reverb/?latest (http://112db.com/redline/reverb/?latest)
btw MAC 64 bit took a bit more time then expected (as always...), but we're having a look at the Windows-version this week .
nousch
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Maybe you should download the latest version :)
http://112db.com/redline/reverb/?latest (http://112db.com/redline/reverb/?latest)
btw MAC 64 bit took a bit more time then expected (as always...), but we're having a look at the Windows-version this week .
nousch
Who?
Me?
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Who?
Me?
Yep, Redline Reverb 1.0.6 is 64 bit for PC ;)
BBC 64-bit works great though.
Are you saying you don't experience crashes in projects with a memory footprint of > 2.5GB in Cubase 6.5.x?
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We still haven't been able to reproduce the problem with large projects, I' m afraid. But we did find some inefficiencies in the Redline Reverb code that potentially could cause problems. Because we can't reproduce your problem here, and as a consequence can't tell if the changes we made indeed have solved it, we kindly ask you guys to try the new beta and report back:
www.112db.com/beta (http://www.112db.com/beta)
Thanks in advance,
--nousch
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Nousch, thanks for getting back at us.
I've tested the 1.7 beta with a demo license, and the behavior is the same. When opening the GUI in a larger project (+/- 4.5GB), Cubase crashes.
I also tested Studio One 2.5 x64, and that one too crashed with a 3GB project, exact same behavior as Cubase.
Despite the fact I don't have any trouble with other x64's plugs in big projects, I'm afraid it system related then. Especially given the fact you are not able to reproduce the issue on a PC with a Cubase x64 project >4GB.
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I am not at all certain this is a 112dB bug.
Why? Simply because not only can I not repro this, but also because I have heard of it in other plugin manufacturers/coders as well, and again - cannot repro.
Dare I ask if you have any Native Instruments plugins running when these crashes occur?
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Dare I ask if you have any Native Instruments plugins running when these crashes occur?
Yes, I have several Native Instruments plugins running. Could those be troublemakers?
Edit: I just tried to reproduce the problem with a Cubase project and only one instance of Halion 4 loaded with a bunch of high memory patches, and the problem remains. So I'm afraid it's not related to Native Instruments plugs.
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Sorry to hear it still not working. I really hoped those changes would have made a difference...
I have heard of it in other plugin manufacturers/coders as well, and again - cannot repro.
Could you perhaps send me a link if you have one? I can try to do some detective work, maybe those other problems can reveal the underlying cause.
--nousch
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Sorry to hear it still not working. I really hoped those changes would have made a difference...
Yep, me too ;)
For the record, when a project is small it works perfectly, I can easily run 340+ instances of the reverb without any trouble.
Another remarkable thing. When I switch the plugin's GUI to "Generic editor" in Cubase, while spiking, the spiking stops immediately.
Neil and Nousch, do you care to share your system specifications?
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I don't really understand what you mean, we got a lot of different systems here to test with. When someone has a problem we try the one that comes the most close. Is that the one you're interested in?
--nousch
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I don't really understand what you mean, we got a lot of different systems here to test with. When someone has a problem we try the one that comes the most close. Is that the one you're interested in?
Yes, that's the one. Because maybe an obvious thing like the graphic card/driver or type of CPU could be the cause of the issue.
I'm almost sure it's related to something graphical, because when I open the plugin GUI when it's NOT activated in Cubase, it also starts stressing my 12th CPU core. The fact it always and every time stresses the same CPU core in every high memory project, is remarkable itself.
Obviously when I run multiple instances of the plugin in an empty project, every separate instances of the plugin is pointed to 1 of the 12 cores, exactly like it should be in a multi processing environment.
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Yes I am getting the same problem
Most projects crash straight away, when adding big blue.
A couple of become unstable and crashed a bit later.
I noticed it on a project with 96 Khz 32 bit float
And another at 44 khz 32 bit float.
It may be OK on 24 bit projects?
It happens a lot though, so I have had to stop using Big Blue, which is a shame, because it is really good at fattening up sounds.
I am using:-
Cubase 7.05, Windows 7 64 bit Home Premium
i7-3770K CPU 3.5 Ghz, 8 Gig Memory
Cheers,
Paul
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The good news: we finally were able to reproduce the bug on our own systems. The bad news: we have still not been able to find the cause. We have some idea in which direction to look though, so with a bit of luck we'll have a solution this week.
--nousch
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That's great news. Thank you. I hope you can fix it.
I have a few compressor from including vey expensive high end ones, but Big Blue is still my Go-to compressor.
This is because it is flexible and really beefs up the sound. The thing that it does well, that non of my other compressors do, is ducking the bass with a sidechain from the kick, to make the kick sound clearly through the bass. A lot of thee other compressors don't have side chain, or they just don't sound right doing this (I think they are a bit slow compared to Big Blue, which still sound very good with very short Attack time.)
So in other words it would make a huge difference to me if it can get sorted (or if there's a work around you know of).
I have over 20 years experience working as a developer (but not audio plugins unfortunately) so if you need someone to help with testing, or check the Beta is OK, then let me know and I would be happy help.
Cheers,
Paul
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The good news: we finally were able to reproduce the bug on our own systems. The bad news: we have still not been able to find the cause. We have some idea in which direction to look though, so with a bit of luck we'll have a solution this week.
Great news, hope you'll find the solution soon.
Good luck!!
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I think I know the cause!
I always have problems in Cubase with 32 bit plugins.
I had no problems with Big Blue for a while, when I had a golden rule of not using 32bit. Then the problem came back. I had accidently added 32 bit plugins to my project.
When I removed the 32 bit plugins, there was no further problems with Big Blue.
I have not had a problem with Big Blue since.
I am sure it is caused by adding 32 bit plugins to the project.
So maybe BitBridge or the 32bit plugins are overwriting the memory for Big Blue? Or something techy like that.
Cheers,
Paul
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Hiya Paul.
Is Cubase scanning both the 32 & 64-bit versions at the same time?
This will certainly cause stability issues in my experience.
With VST2 plugins, I now tend to make sure that 64-bit hosts do not, ever, point at a shared folder that contains 32-bit versions of plugins also installed in 64-bit mode.
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Thanks Paul! If it's the bit bridge it could explain why we had so much difficulty to reproduce this problem at first. I don't know much about the technical details myself, only that it it has something to do with memory allocation, and that it turned out very complicated to track because the problem manifests itself in the host program and not in the plugin itself. It looks like we finally found the cause however. I'll contact all you guys who reported this problem personally when the new version gets the all clear. Would be great if you would be willing to check if this fix solves the problem on your specific set up/projects as well.
--nousch
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HI Neil,
Yes I do the same as you. I have a folder called 'VST Not Scanned', where I dump everything 32 bit, or anything else I don't want in cubase, but is in the installation.
Hi Nousch,
I would be happy to test the new build and give you feedback. I am not getting any problems at the moment, enforcing a 32 bit ban. But I have a couple of dodgy plugins I can try that are bound to kick things off.
Cheers,
Paul
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We found it :). Big cheers to Fokke, who did some incredible work. Updates with the bugfix are online now, and can be downloaded here (http://112db.com/download).
--nousch